Solar panels and energy crunch forum

I've been thinking about reducing my energy bills for some time I spend quite a lot of money, especially during winter in gas for my central heating system So I suppose, my best bet will be hot water panels

However, I'm curious as to how much I could save in electricity, if I install a photovoltaic system I live in the South of England and my semi-detached house looks to the South, so the front gets a lot of Sun most of the day. The house has three bedrooms and 3 inhabitants: Me, my wife and son. MY son and me work during the day, but my wife is most of the day at home. If you need my consumption figures, I can get them

I know the government is giving grants for solar installations ( quite generous in the PV area), but all considered, how much time will you need to recover your costs?

Any advice will be appreciated.

Hi there.

Firstly let me clear one noteworthy thing up. Currently the government give £2,500 grants for Photovoltaics (PV solar panels). This is going to end next year, when the grant scheme will be replaced with government subsidy's called feed in Tariff's, similar to Germanys successful scheme. Similar feed-in tariffs have been available in Germany since 1991. (Feed-in Tarriff is what you get paid for on your surplus power)

People who buy PV is not looking at the cost of energy today. These people are investing on the basis that the UK energy situation is going to push up energy pricing (Gas and electric) on the basis that our north sea supplies are drying up, Russian supplies are expensive and leaves europe, not just the UK venerable, as well as global oil issues (peak oil). When you factor all these issue's, then suddenly a solar technology that last 30 - 40 years suddenly seems wise.

Solar hot water is a substantial investment simply because it enables you to reduce and sometimes leave your boiler dormant for 70% of the year. Think of this as an LPG conversion for your home. After the upfront investment, your going to be enjoying cheap running costs for the next 30+ years.

For those that do not buy solar panels now, I will guarantee you will have to buy them within the next 10 years. (See paragraph 2)

Start saving now.

Yep. The golden age of cheap energy, which this country, has enjoyed since the discovery of North Sea supplies is coming to an end.

Our country currently only has 3 weeks back up supplies, so if Russia decides it wants to teach us a lesson, or a pipeline is destroyed by mentalists terrorists, then the UK will then realise how vulnerable we are.

Also, add into the equation that most of our electric is produced by gas powered stations, and alot of our existing power stations are coming to the end of their safe working lives, and investment in the green revolution will be paid for not by our skint government, but through the energy bills that get posted through your door.

All this adds up to a frightfully expensive energy future.

Getting back to the original question:

People need hot water and electricity in their daily lives. So it can be argued that both technologies are essential, but not everyone is lucky enough to afford both, so choosing one solar technology over another is hard, but maybe this will help:

If you heat up your hot water using an electric immersion heater, than a hot water system will benefit saving you lots of electricity.

If you have a very large demand (3 or more household) for hot water, then hot water solar is best.

If you prefer a bath/shower after work, then solar hot water is for you.

If you prefer a morning bath/shower, than solar panels can transfer it's heat (if you have a quality hot water tank) right through to the morning. A brief top up boost from your back up heating source can be set up.

If you have a second home, then PV solar may be best because the unused electricity will be sold back to the national grid.

If you want to increase your homes sell ability, then both technologies are good for this.

If you are planning for retirement, then PV solar is good, so you can use the generated power first and sell your surplus, with free trade able ROC's (Renewable Obligation Certificates, think carbon credits) which will rise in value over time.

At the end of the day, both technologies are good at what they do. Hope this guide is useful.

With Photovoltaic, solar panels the maximum output power is measured in watts, the larger the panel the solar cells you can fit into it.

The smallest domestic solar system is usually a 1KW, and this is the peak output given at any one time. Think of cars rev counter. When your panel is producing at peak power, a 1KW system produces 1KW every second. If it is a cloudy day, then it produces less depending on the cloud density.

Although Photovoltaic are more expensive, it seems that PV solar is better at harvesting solar energy during lets say cloudier conditions. I know this fact because, I have an evacuated tubes system installed and have a small PV device in my garden, but the PV solar panel is always working even when the hot water system is not.

Advantages of installing a PV system:

No emissions, no noise.

No maintenance (no moving parts to wear out) and to be intergrated into or mounts onto an existing building Visually attractive.

Very long lifespan 30 - 40 years.

The panels would pay for their costs in 10 years, though, you would not have your capital. If you did have money in the bank, as the years tick by, solar slowly catches up, and overtakes the bank deposit by year 26.

Assuming the money from solar (the feed-in tariff and electricity savings, etc) is deposited in a bank after the installation costs have been paid off at year 10, harnessing the power of the sun will be free for the rest of the panels life span.

House price rise of 10% ?

A survey of homes with Photovoltaic Solar suggested a 10 - 15% increase in house price than there neighbours homes, without these solar panels. A future proof home is a sought after home.

Can my home have Photovoltaic, solar panels installed ?

Most homes can, but factors such as house orientation to the sun and roof space could prevent. This will be metered and sold back to the Nation Grid, sold at approx 3/4 the price you pay to import your electricity. Do they work on cloudy days ?

Yes, and surprisingly they operate better under cooler conditions, than on hotter days

Can they get rid of my electricity bills ?

Probably not, but this depends on the size of system your budget allows, and how much energy you consume. Households vary massively on their energy consumption rates. Used with other energy saving measures photovoltaic solar will be a welcome relief for any household as energy prices rise dramatically.

Can we get a grant towards the costs ?

Yes, most domestics can get a large part of the costs paid for by the DTI. It is first come first served, funds are limited, so apply quickly.

How soon will it payback ?

All renewable energy technologies take many years for payback. With the new feed-in tariffs available from April 2010, payback on such a system will be brought down to around 10 - 12 years.

Is there any maintenance needed after install ?

No, the panels are self cleaning, and there are no moving parts, just install and forget. Is your system grid connected or off grid connected ?

Our photovoltaic systems are grid connected which means they connect to the National Grid, and surplus energy is sold (exported) at usually 3/4 the rate you import it.

For the price of a bottom of the range, cheap Japanese car, you can protect your household for the next 30+ years as ugly en evitable energy pricing goes up and up and up, while possibly adding value to your property. On grid Photovoltaic, solar panels can be used for homes, offices, public buildings. As part of grid connection, these systems can produce electricity which is sold to the National Grid. Combined with basic energy saving measures, PV Solar will produce most, all or surplus energy, in today's energy expensive world. Fitting will raise your house price by up to 10%; thus you are investing into your home and your future. The innovative PV array technology and mounting systems mean that, PV can be retrofitted on existing roofs. Easily incorporated as part of the building envelope at construction stage too.

The benefits are:

* Your own clean, independent renewable power source

* Can reduce your electricity bills by up to 100%

* Surplus sold back to the National Grid at reasonable rates

* Gain valuable tradable 'Renewable obligation certificates' (Rocs)

* Low maintenance, with a long functional lifetime of 30+ years plus Silent in operation * It is the only renewable energy source that is proven

* No "Nimby" or planning barriers

* Contribute to reducing the impact of global warming and climate change

We sell All the electricity we produce, including what we use ourselves a Home Generation Scheme, and this has reduced our electricity bill down to only £2 a Month

Why do PV solar panels work on cloudy days?

Simply put, the earth is bathed in solar radiation. When it is a cloudy day, solar radiation still penetrates through cloud cover. This why it stays light and not dark when cloudy. So the fact, you can still see daylight means solar radiation is still getting through the clouds. This is called diffused daylight.

Photovoltaics take advantage of this, so you still get a performance from a pv system during daytime hours regardless.